Tuesday, January 04, 2011

Back in Design Office on 17th: the nature of engineering calculation.

First projects to do, involve assessment of timber framed decking already built, and assessment of existing scaffolding system needin assessment to new codes. Suggested we use limit state version of Aluminium structures code rather than the permissible stress version which we have already. With limit state can calculate resistance of tubes, and set up some tables to limit assembly usage. With permissible stress code, not dealing with resistance of tube since factored to allow for variance in load. With limit state have design factors for resistance and for loading, so that can accomodate variability in resistance and loading more realistically.
 
So until back in the office have time to write, setup Excel workbooks for calculations and generation of drawings, and modify website. Plus get out and about which tend not to beable to do once work starts. Tend to get stuck in office all day everyday. When get home keep working, reading some design manual or textbook, or writing Excel workbooks: so as to be able to get on with solving problems the next day. A never ending process of learning. Formal education only covers part of what need to know. Exercising duty-of-care then requires researching the literature and getting upto speed with the established science about an established technology. This has to be done otherwise will invent an inferior version of the wheel, which will fail in an unexpected and unacceptable manner.
 
So that the majority of time is not spent on an individual project but developing knowledge and experience which is applicable across many more projects. Thus whilst able to tackle a project doesn't mean immediately upto speed with the technical requirements of the technology involved. If upto speed with technology, then maybe able to solve problem in a few minutes, whilst several hours maybe required to formally document. But this situation is only so, if have a high degree of reptition and have developed to tools to complete task in a few minutes (eg. Excel workbook), otherwise if problem not repetitive yet problem well understood then it can take several hours to days to calculate out the required solution. If not familar with the technology then can take a day, to weeks to get upto speed with that technology, which may involve finding worked examples of similar problems and working through such, developing a feel for the procedure, and checking that can replicate results, and have confidence that have understood the science and concepts involved.
 
It is not like choosing between using a screwdriver or a hammer. It is more like using such tools to build other tools, before get on with the task at hand. For example cannot use a metal lathe before built one. Once such tool exists, other tools can be built using the more advanced capabilities of the lathe. The same goes for engineering calculations, simple elements or building blocks are used to build larger mathematical models of complex systems, so that the bahaviour of one element influences the behaviour of another. Most of time stick to simple procedural approach, simply applying reaction from one element as action on another. But occassionally build full mathematical system of equations and solve the system, this is the approach taken by structural analysis software (eg. MicroStran, MultiFrame). However such models are not actually full models, they only model part of the behaviour of the system, and not altogether accurately. Whilst the system of equations may be solved accurately by the available software, the mathematical model of the physical system is not an accurate representation of the real system. The results thus have to be assessed qualitatively to determine what value if any the quantitive results have. Typically may have to solve several mathematical models each dealing with opposing idealistic extremes, the real behaviour of the system lying some where in between. The designer then makes a judgement accordingly on the size of structural components.
 
It is thus not very helpful, if people go building things and then receive a notification from council to get an engineers report and apply for development approval or remove the structure. It can take some where in the order of 5 times longer to assess an existing structure than it does to design a structure. And then all we are saying, after much research to get the best models to reflect what has been done, is that the existing structure is barely compliant with the Building code of Australia. That is the existing construction has little reserve capacity and is not very robust. We have simply done our best to avoid the users having to demolish. It is not what we would design, and not what we would recommend.  Demolition however is wasteful of materials, so if the construction is acceptable to the owners, which typically is, they built it, then primary issue is does it pose an hazard to the community. If with a great deal of extra analysis effort can demonstrate the risk of retaining is acceptable, then let it remain.
 
However proof for the existing does take a great deal more effort, and not all existing construction can be demonstrated adequate, and strengthening can be difficult requiring dissassembly. Thus far we have been amicable and not charged the real cost of time expended on such activity. But really cost benefit wise should get structures designed before construct them. Because the real cost of assessing existing structure and strengthing required can cost a lot more than saved by avoiding get the design and building youself. Noting that owner builders tend to use any materials they have lying around their property, not always suitable for the structure desired. Should note that jumping up and down on the structure does not test the strength of the structure the wind load is many times greater than your own impact weight.
 
...
 
So once work starts back in the office, probably won't beble to sustain any writing. Last year held back from writing posts to SEAint, because previous year spent far too much time writing posts, mant of which did not send. Also my posts tended to be too long. So the alternative is to try an approach where by I respond to the questions by posting to my own blog. Amongst other things this would make my own posts easier to find than in the SEAint archives, and so I could reference from elsewhere. Especially my own website.
 
The idea for my website is to build a resource for training engineering technicians the traditional way: from tracer, through drafter, to designer. Such approach should also keep with the original approach not fully implemented of providing a resource for owner builders.
 
Why am I still writing at this time. I know I could stay awake for 36 hours, including cycling around everywhere. But not sure I can still do that.
 
On the other hand I do have paper journals where by I would wite my thoughts down in the early hours of the morning, especially when I was at university. Couldn't get to sleep, start writing at 1:00 AM for four hours or so. Lots of essays criticising education.
 
I didn't want to go to uni, to study engineering. I wanted to study. I thought the idea was to get away from teachers, and seek knowledge. So when found out I had to pick a study programme, I choose science as first option. But have this crazy points system in place, and got may third choice B.Eng in mechanical engineering at the South Australian Institute of Technology. I failed to get past 2nd year mathematics and dropped back to associate diploma, I could use the mathematics, but the school of mathematics exams, were biased towards theoretical proof's most of which appeared to me as circular proofs and no proof at all. To me the school of mathematics has to sell their theories to engineers, by providing real evidence of the suitability of the theory for engineering applications. If the mathematics is invalid then peoples lives are placed at risk. Navier did not validate Euler's theories and his own extensions in a safe manner, he built bridges which failed during construction.
 
Which is the other issue that I had. From an early age (that would be around time of Flowery Field Junior school), I new what architects and engineers did. But clearly my technological environment could not have been designed and built by people who knew what they were doing. And adults constantly complaining about defects here and there. Therefore my teachers had to be wong. Adults do not know better, and jobs are not carried out only by qualified people. If work is only done by qualified people, then the people teaching and qualifying them, clearly do not know what they are doing.
 
The knowledge required to design a beam is relatively established and clear. The knowledge to design a bridge is also relatively well established and certain. But the knowledge required to assess if a bridge is really required is not so certain. Further more at the end of the day, the real characteritics of an engineered system are dependent on subjective judgement. Two different people, gets two different judgements. One may consider design effective, and other consider it defective. The voice that the existing technological environment is defective is louder than that considering it is acceptable. Largely because those who think it is defective are seeking change, those that find acceptable have no need for change. With every system however, there are always defects that have to be accepted along with the benefits, or at least accepted until such time as they can be removed or diminished in influence. There is no perfect system and always have to accept the dark and the light, all shades of grey. (Yes I know there are theories indicating all is finite integer quanta, but if infinitesimal then on a macro scale it is a continuous spectrum.)
 
Which poses a problem for designers. Once they have placed something in the environment, or the market, then the product will be put to a multitude of uses way beyond the expectations of the designer. The end-users will then blame the designer for the failings of the product, rather than accept responsibility for their poor selection of a product with characteristics better suited to their needs. Making something comply with a code does not make it safe, nor perfect, or even desirable. Blind compliance with codes of practice can produce extremely dangerous products.
 
It should also be noted that bigger is not alway stronger. Bigger bolts maybe stronger than smaller bolts if made from the same material. However the holes in the timber they are being used to bolt together will also be bigger than expected for specified bolts, therefore the carpenters choice of bigger bolts cause got some spare and readily available doesn't always make it better. Such choice would make the timbers weaker.
 
The timber framing code for example is not written to provide for solar panels attached to rafters. (Or at least not the version I have: I don't use, so no rush to update: Australian Standards are extortionately expensive). Thus whilst a rafter can selected from the timber framing code in a minute or less. The assessment of the rafter to carry the extra loading from the solar panel, and the holes for any connecting frame would change it to a hour or so calculation exercise.
 
Which does also raise other issues. Do we really need to be producing so many calculations for council approval. Much of the calculation task has been done once or more times before. It therefore does not serve any real purpose to do the calculations again. That is the reason we have the likes of the timber framing code. Wasteful to keep producing pages of calculations to check common elements like wall studs and common rafters. Also don't want different engineers coming up with what appear to be different answers for the same stucture: as far as builders can tell. So the span tables and similar in the timber framing code achieve some level of consistency. Not altogether though because Building Surveyors are typically not all that conversant with mechanics and not fully qualified to identify if a proposed house structure is within the scope of the timber framing code. I hazard a guess and same some 80% of houses are outside the scope of the code. If it has a hipped roof probably outside the scope of the code. The code contains no structural model for a hip rafter. The hip rafter is only sized as a connnection board like the ridge board, this situation only exists when the hip rafter has no overhang. Further more common rafters are required to have backspans at least twice the overhang. Jack rafters in the hip corner have overhangs greater than the backspan, and the fascia board is no longer behaving as a simple board but now more like a beam. The timber framing code also ignores the magnifying effects of the eaves overhang when sizing tie downs. There are various issues. Some may be acceptable simplifications others may not. But I would rather have a structure checked by a 2 year qualified engineering associate, than by a 3 year qualified Building Surveyor. Most especially given that the structure is typically sized up by a timber estimator: the only training being use of timber framing code. Thus with timber estimator and building surveyor have two people involved with project only conversant with timber framing code and not conversant with structural mechanics and the limitations of the structural models presented in AS1684.1 the part of the code they never use, and probably never seen.
 
See I don't really diverge. At school a topic was presented and I simplified into a set of abstract rules and concepts. Then when I wrote assignments got told I should provide concrete examples of what I was discussing. Back then I made everything too abstract. No I interrupt with divergent topics, jumping from one thing to another. But clearly there must be a path, a chain joing all these things together. Edward De Bono, in lateral thinking or one of his books, suggests picking a word at random as a seed, to generate alternative ideas, and free up thoughts. It is also like simulated annealing algorithms. Normal optimising routines may fail to find the true minimum value of a function, they get stuck in the valleys of a mathematical curve and cannot jump out. Simulated annealing provides an oracle I think, in the form Boltzmann probability for a gas, which energises a conceptual particle following the mathematical curve and jumps it out of the valley, so that can continue the search for the mathematical minimum elsewhere. Or something like that.
 
Originally university education brought new perspective to industry, that was because what was being learnt had little to do with industry. The graduate had to determine whether their education brought value to what they were employed to do. Occupational degrees however exist for a different purpose. We know what the required knowledge base is, and in the main it only needs to be at the 2 year Associate Degree level. Things have become distorted, most people with a MBA, have inadequate knowledge of business and management at the undergraduate level they have no real right to a masters degree. Due to lack of knowledge at the lower level they make poor managers. Degrees now reflect more breadth than depth, and that means that required depth is being lost.
 
It is better to train people for industry at the associate degree level in multiple degrees than a single bachelor degree containing breadth. The required and necessary breadth for a given industry, business enterprise or job position, cannot be determined with certainty. It is necessary to adapt to the changing environment, and the environment changes with our very presence in it. Each action we take changes the environment we operate in, we thus have to respond to these changes and adapt our behaviour accordingly. People with AQF Associate degrees who are able to get the job done are important to sustaining acceptable levels of performance for our technological society. For example an engineering associate with an Associate Degree in Steel Design, should conduct the detail design of steel structures. The person with the Bachelor degree in Civil Engineering, typically does not have specialist knowledge in steel design, their bias will typically be reinforced concrete, and more importantly advanced structural analysis. It is part of the problem a B.Eng doesn't make a person and engineer, but more of an engineering analyst.
 
Robert Stephenson for example was engineer of the Britannia bridge. Fairbairn provided the applied science and Hodgkinson applied mathematics, but Stephenson is the one who had to decide if all the science and mathematics was valid and go ahead and build the bridge. Science and mathematics can take place in isolation from any actual construction. However, I contend that real engineers operate at the frontiers of science and technology. So simply building a bridge does not make an engineer, nor does crunching some numbers about its structural adequacy. But what is in a title? Very little, for there is no real need to use titles. On the other hand has become clear that engineering associates and engineering technologists cannot turn round to so called engineers and acquire the expertise and experience they are looking for because the universities and silly industrial relations systems have fast tracked the graduate into position of engineer, and they are barely competent technicians.
 
We need to stop educating people to the B.Eng level, and train more people with Associate Degrees and lower. Further more understand the difference between education and training. Education provides enabling competence, training develops competence, profiency and over all fitness for the task. University exams and qualifications, therefore do not represent assessment of an adequate level of practice: further traning is required before fit for the needs of industry. And industry is typically only interested in a single area of structures, thus whilst the major engineering disciplines typicall have at least 5 major areas of practice, graduates only practice in a single area. Thus only need train and develop proficiency in a single area: therefore with respect to that single area the duration of a study programme can be reduced, and an additional vocational practice certificate training programme added in.
 
The problem of employment. Well already have that problem. Chose mechanical engineering, should have chosen structural engineering. However I am suggesting bringing the problem forward, and having a properly articulated education and qualification system. Instead of choosing civil engineering, choose stormwater and drainage design, obviously a major area for growth in Australia at the current point in time. Assuming that is that some party is going to fund design and construction of the appropriate infrastructure to mitigate future large scale flooding. At any point in time a multitude of people studying across all major areas of practice. There is still the potential to have too many graduates in one area and not enough in another. However, the graduates that are surplus, can choose an alternative direction. Further more if all is dependent on a common 1 year Diploma in Engineering Science, then they can change engineering discipline and area of practice. Further more they can change a lot more quickly at any future point in their career. Because the reality is those with say a B.Eng in civil engineering once they have specialised in say structures there is little possibility that they can move over into stormwater drainage. This is because they lack adequate depth of knowledge in the specialist area, and industry not all that willing to retrain. But If have vocational certificates of practice, they can enrol in a training programme and gain the experience and develop profiency.
 
Individuals are no different to businesses, it is necessary to keep upto date with the market: what knowledge and skills does the market need now, what will it require tomorrow?
 
Simple IE process: Observe, Measure, Record, Design and Implement.
 
Do this with respect to the environment in which you live. And hey if wanted independence of parents, why so many people want the parental assistance of government. Be prepared and look after own interests. Don't go with the flow, you will be in same trouble as everyone else, take own direction, and make own pathway. Either you are a cog in the current machine, or the next generation machine of your own making.
 
 
PO: An array of ideas to develop further.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Sunday, January 02, 2011

Not what I was Expecting

Don't want all the blog posted to recipients. Just a small reference to. So need to write a much longer post to test if only a short paragraph of the post gets emailed to others or all of it. The idea is that I post my extra long posts to my blog page and short responses are sent to email forums, where my responses need to be kept short. SEAint for example, stops my posts if they are too long. This I tend to get around by breaking the post up into smaller posts and sending my response in parts. Alternatively I choose not to send my post, and write it again and again, as other posts come in on the subject. Until I finally write something short enough that it can be posted, though it is still usually excessively long. But then it takes time to writre something shorter. Though at the moment having a problem trying to figure out what to write in order to make this longer than the paragraph that may be extracted and sent to email receipients. If I stop too soon, then I will have to start from scratch and try and write something longer again. But then maybe I can dig out some of those long responses written but not actually sent.
 
Now for a second paragraph to check if grabs first sentence, or first paragraph or the entire post. How long does it have to be to be cut short. Maybe I can find something in the help system.

Testing Email Blogging

What happens when I have emails listed to receive updates of my blog.

New Templates

Like the new templates. Though did prefer the text below the header boxed and centred. But thats minor, over all the rest of the view is much better.

Been Wasting time on the Net?

Been surfing the net reading newsvine, and otherwise jumping from user to user on twitter. Not sure why, I'm certain I had more important things to be doing during the break. Cannot remember what though. Formatting my hard-disk and re-installing the system wasn't one of them. Actually it was, but it was going to be more planned. And I had decided to delay until after done the accounts. Only stupidly I ran Windows XP setup disk in repair mode. Only didn't repair, deleted half the system and then did a half baked re-install: resulting in my not being able to log back on. Or rather requiring that I activate first: problem however need to log on to setup internet access to activate: but wouldn't allow. so went from minor irritation, word and acrobat hanging system since last automatic update: to system stuffed. Though did seem to be some problem with the file system, permissions messed up and chkdsk kept finding indexing errors. Thus part of reason to format hard disk. But was going to tolerate irritation until done accounts, and backed up more completely. Now I have lost data files: poor programs store in the application folder. Stuff which doesn't get backed up on regular basis.
 
Beyond that was going to work on more Excel spreadsheets for submission to ExcelCalcs, and also rebuild my website. Not however totally decided on the new format: new organisation structure for information.
 
Now also pondering whether can make structural issues, and the building code of Australia news worthy so that can write at newsvine. Just trying to bring several things together. Thus far been writing lengthy emails to SEAint listserver regarding wind loading, and structural design in general. Whilst that is good for technical discussion, it is short of Australian followers to discuss practicalities in application of Australian codes of practice.
 
More over a great deal more of what I have to say is more concerned with owner-builders, builders and manufacturers and their failure to seek appropriate design services in the first place. So D.I.Y. forums may be a possible location to post articles.
 
One primary issue is that if I sit down to write my mind is typically blank. But if get question like on SEAint, then I can respond and write at length. Most of what I write however, I change my mind about and do not post. So the long articles actually posted are a fraction of what I have actually written in response to issues raised by other posts.
 
Another issue also concerns use of time. Should I be writing articles, writing computer programs, and setting up Excel workbooks for calculations. I have no real distinction between work and other time. It is also design and learning time.
 
Digital TV reception is so poor, that do now spend more time surfing the net than watching TV. The programming for digital TV is also poor, no idea what is going to be on. And what is the value of the electronic program guide, if the authors cannot really be bothered describing anything? Would think such guide was upto date to the very second. Would also think that was a direct link to the detailed scheduling worked out at the stations, not something that appears to be input separately into another system for the umpteenth time so the authors bored.
 
Currently got GO! on and the picture is the best its been in several weeks. Though not really paying attention since writing this waffle, trying to find a focal point. Organise something thoughts, give ideas about structures some structure.
 
Things to talk about!
 
Sail-shades,
Canopies,
 
Distribution and economics of structural building products. For example minimum weight structure is not the minimum cost structure. Problems in the shed industry. Erectors basically lock price in, therefore no benefit reducing labour content of building.  So doesn;t matter how material content of building is distributed, it will cost the same price to assemble, with the cost structures currently in place.
 
Now should I be writing this here or over on the LinkedIn groups that I have created. What to write about when and where.

Saturday, January 01, 2011

Been creating web presence.

Not sure why but set up accounts at LinkIN, twitter, facebook, scribd and delicious. Mostly got links to sites from WWF website which explained the sites it provided easy linking to.
 
One reason for setting up the accounts is that IIE has indicated that it is going to  pursue networking opportunities using such sites. Whilst the IEAust and many of its technical societies already has presence in such forums. So potential to dicussion issues in these forums. Most especially since the IEAust own forums that it has attempted to create over the years go no where. Not surprising since not very open, and kind of censored. That is the forums are more an opportunity for the few to lecture at members not interact with. A kind of I know, you don't situation, with no opportunity to say no you don't, you are way wrong. And who made you the expert anyway. Not only have trite experience but talking rubbish. So never really motivated by local IEAust meetings or its online forums. Real interact with real experts, now that is something different.

Thursday, September 09, 2010

FW: Rate of compensation for Structural Tech... And my usual long winded diversion.

To: seaint@seaint.org
Subject: RE: Rate of compensation for Structural Tech... And my usual long
winded diversion.
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This message is too long to be posted to this list.
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Food for thought.
A real engineer operates at the frontiers of science and technology, is
project manager, principal designer, principal scientist, principal
mathematician and chief builder, and has complete and total authority over
the project. None exist, and a 4 year B.Eng straight from school is grossly
inadeqaute for the purpose.
However most of what takes place is the application and adaptation of
established technologies through the application of established scientific
principles: the work of technians and technologists or applied scientists
and industrial mathematicians.
Simply phrased: Technicians APPLY, Technologists ADAPT, Engineers ORIGINATE.
As a society we do not take kindly to defects in established technologists
due to failure to apply the established science.
The NCEES FE/PE exams are not really about engineers, it is more about
ensuring provision of competent technicians/technologists to plan, design,
assess and manage established technologies. We cannot exam that which is at
the frontiers of science and technology, and cannot operate competently at
the frontier unless developed a high level of competence and proficiency
within the established science and technology.
It seems clear that the NCEES has divided each major discipline into 5 major
areas of practice, and with the breadth and depth format proficiency is only
required in one area of practice, but some competency across all areas.
The B.Eng is largely 4 years in duration as a consequence of history
concerning prestige and status in a class structured society, where typical
degree is 3 years in duration. By adding an extra year it was thought status
would improve. Which may have been the case if it was an academic year and
demonstrated increase in depth. But it is really a bogus year made up of
project work and industrial experience or breadth rather than depth of
knowledge. The lack of depth is important relative to the rest of the
engineering team for it means the other members of the team cannot really
turn to the modern engineer for that additional expertise: they still have
to turn to applied mathematicians and applied scientists for that extra
knowledge.
Breaking the B.Eng down. Most now comprise of a common first year, basically
the breadth requirements of the FE exam. That leaves 3 years to cover 5
areas of practice and the depth requirements of the FE's: a total of 6
streams to be covered in 3 years, or half a year per stream: on average.
That means the FE's are covered by 1.5 years of study, and a specific area
of practice can be covered by an additional half a year, to create a 2 year
study programme. However not all the fundamentals are required for a
specific area of practice, so the programme could be shortened to 1 year.
And most such things seem to follow pareto type rules: so that 80% of
projects only require 20% of the knowledge base. So the programme for a
specific area of practice could be shorted to say AQF Certificate I. Taking
criteria from the Bolgna process of 1500 to 1800 hours student work load per
year: leads to a 300 hour to 360 hour Certificate I programme. The
professional publications (PP) reference manuals seem to suggest a 300 hour
review programme to prepare for the PE Exam. Whilst a specific area of
practice would 750 to 900 study programme, after having completed 1.5 years
of FE's. Such half year of study is not beyond the realms of learning on the
job under the supervision of competent and experienced personnel. Neither
the academic year or regular hours of employment make full use of the time
available in a year. So the B.Eng may now be the normal and accepted path
towards becoming a so called "engineer", but it is neither the traditional
nor only path towards a high level of competence in an area of practice. Put
bluntly the B.Eng is just like any other commercial product: its dumped into
the market place without any real thought and consideration to its impact.
Occupational degrees are amongst the dumbest inventions ever. Traditionally
people got a science degree, and then they either had the imagination and
ingenuity to make use of that advanced knowledge on the job or not: and it
permitted progress. Now the knowledge base is locked in for a given
occupation, and consequently bring little new perspective to associated
industries. With the degree alone being used to confer status rather than
actual contribution. Most especially here in Australia, where we have a
crazy industrial relations system.
One major problem with the purely academic route to engineer, is that those
who go to school then on to university and then into industry have zero
understanding of the training and capabilities of the other members of the
engineering team. The result is that the so called "engineers" believe that
most of the work actually requires some one with a B.Eng which is just not
so. If they had followed the more traditional path, from shop floor up
through the ranks of the design office, then they would be more fully
conversant with the capabilities of others, and also with their
responsibility to share and pass knowledge onto the next generation of
designers.
In Australia we have state and federal industrial awards which define
working conditions and minmum rates of pay, depending on the economy and
markets people can get paid significantly more than the award rates of pay,
but not less. The awards however are defined more in terms of education
rather than actual contribution to the business and job responsibilities.
There are awards for technical officers, professional scientists and
professional engineers. A person with a B.Eng is most likely to get paid
according to the professional engineers award, even if only carrying out
work at the level of a technical officer, and the individual really has no
ability to operate at the level of an engineer. Since engineers typically
get paid more than technical officers, the B.Eng is the better product to
buy out off school than the advanced diploma.
However apparently we still currently have a shortage of engineers. Not
however really true. We have a shortage of technically competent people, and
the university 4 year B.Eng or fast track with summer programme to 3 years,
will not resolve the issue: because graduates are not proficient and we need
the skills now, not 4 years from now.
Now most consultancies I have worked. There are engineering associates (2
year qualified)documenting and largely designing HVAC systems, electrical
systems, and setting out roads and stormwater drainage. But come to the
structural section and anyone who can operate CAD is employed as a drafter:
basic operation of CAD. Using CAD is the only training they have. They have
no concept of true lengths of lines and true shapes of planes, or any other
knowledge of engineering graphics and solving problems on a drawing board.
On top of which they have little understanding of what they are drawing, and
little interest in. The result is drafters sat around waiting for sketches
from engineers, and a great deal of revision to correct errors. Because they
are not drafters they do not know the national drafting standards, they also
have little skill in presentation, and they also are unable to develop
additional views and sections. They need a great deal of supervision by the
would "engineers". But replace these CAD jockeys by one mechanical or
structural engineering associate, and the process efficiency rapidly
increases. The engineering associate can put a structure in the building as
defined by the architects drawings, develop additional sections and details,
roughly size the members using back of envelope calculations. All whilst the
engineer is finishing off the previous project and before they have looked
at the current project. And if the engineering associate was given the
opportunity to do what they were trained to do, then they could produce the
final calculations as well: and as with the engineer with out the need of
computers: but why do it the slow way.
To me an engineer is not defined by the 4 year B.Eng, but by the equivalent
2 year Associate Degree in Engineering Science contained within the B.Eng.
It is this which permits them to learn the breadth of knowledge across
discipline specific areas of practice without restriction of discipline. If
the area of practice is not dependent on the 2 years of Engineering Science,
then the person so practicing is not properly operating at the level of
engineer and to me has no right to the title engineer. The status of real
engineers is diminished by calling all design-scientists or
technical-designers engineers. When an enginering associate can see that the
engineer, is conducting calculations and design tasks well within the domain
of their own education, then the status of engineers is diminished: more so
when the engineers visualisation and design skills are poorer than those of
the engineering associate: so that the only skill the engineer brings to the
project is number crunching: which a computer can do faster and with fewer
errors.
If the person in question is a true structural technician, not a drafter,
then they should be able to take simple projects from conception to
implementation without the need for an engineer, except for the imposed
legal requirements for an engineer.
Having failed 2nd year advanced engineering mathematics in B.Eng, and
dropped back to the Associate Diploma Mechanical Engineering, moved onto the
Associate Diploma Business (major Industrial Engineering) and then Bachelor
of Technology in Manufacturing and Mechanical Engineering. The issue for me
is: I know that the majority of the structural engineering only requires a
final year structures option in two year associate diploma, so when a
graduate B.Eng Civil cannot do simple structural design I am not impressed.
Want to be employed as an engineer then need to convince me I need an
engineer. Want the title engineer then need to convince me deserve such
title. I have no title, I have an education and either it serves the needs
of clients or it doesn't. And given the abusive comments most clients have
about some engineer, and the rubbish they have supplied, I wouldn't want the
title engineer.
(So all those engineering associates and engineering technologists and
drafters using the title engineer stop. Why associate with professionals who
lack the real competency required. Demonstrate that we do not need the so
called engineers (B.Eng) and that they do not make it happen: and never did.
That the bulk of the work is done by and can be done by engineering
associates: don't need the technologists either.)
In Australia the status of engineers will improve if we have full
articulation under the Australian Qualification Framework (AQF), such that
AQF Certificate I is the starting point and cannot move up to the next level
unless get 80% or more as a pass mark. So all persons with a B.Eng are fully
conversant with the skills of other members of the team because their
education took them through that path. Therefore once on the job they will
know just how relevant their education is to the job, and as employer can
employ people appropriate to the work at hand: rather than on the basis of
professional status irrelevant to the task at hand. Occupations and
porfessionals are something of an hindrance to meeting the needs of society.
The medical profession for example major obstacle to providing effective
and efficient health care. Likewise teachers focussed on improving eduction
by employing more teachers: how? I was under the impression I read the books
and sat the exam's not the teachers. Teachers what did they do other than
get in the way, and waste my time with irrelevant subjects. Lectures take
place because the printing press had not been invented: and one person can
read the book out loud and many people can produce a hand written copy and
go out into the world and as scholars pass that knowledge on: compared to
one person reading the only book available on a topic and producing a single
copy. With the gutenburg and caxton printing presses that ceased to be
necessary and helped spawn the industrial revolution: people reading and
putting knowledge to use, and then writing about it and spreading the
knowledge further and enhancing the knowledge on a topic. But those channels
started getting stifled and clogged up: where are the modern day
phamphleteers like jonathan swift. The internet has provided a new channel
of communication, and better get with the idea that formal academic study
programmes are way slow and contain trite information. Consequently
independent examination boards are going to be of extreme importance in
maintaining the reliiability of established technologies. Examining and
qualifying someone is not the same as wasting their time contending to be
teaching them. For the most part we do not need to be teaching people but
qualifying and recognising the skills people already have beyond their
original education and training: and then permitting them to get on with the
job.
Then there is the matter of business. Who cares whether a person is a
drafter, structural technician, engineer or has another other trite title.
If the person contributes to the reputation of the business and such
reputation generates future work, and the individual contributes signifcant
part of the effort towards completing that work then they should be rewarded
accordingly if intend that they stay. Otherwise they can always leave and
set up business on their own. As I have said in earlier posts, and
reinforced here: what value is the engineer?
80% of projects are trivial, well with in the capabilities of engineering
associates, with out need of a computer, but modern computer software makes
the projects even more trivial. Real engineers, as I started out with,
operate at the frontiers of science and technology, once frontier removed
then the area of practice is brought within the domain of established
science and technology. So that last years engineer is this years
technician. Thus as an individual have status of engineer for removing that
frontier, but those entering into the area are no longer engineers but
technicians. Therefore expect that as technology is developed and evolves
that tasks will shift to persons with more rapid and more specific training.
Engineering consultancies which lack unique and innovative solutions to
problems will ultimately be displaced by computer software implementing
stock standard solutions to routine problems, at high speed with few errors.
Remember that historically the likes of Robert Stephenson sought the
guidance of researchers and mathematicians like Hodgkinson. Mathematics is
important, but it doesn't make a person an engineer. People don't want
pretty pictures of hospitals or pages full of silly numbers they want a
hospital and they wanted it yesterday. Likewise they wanted bridges: people
sought the services of Telford, Brunel and Stephenson to build bridges not
draw pictures. So when engineering is reduced to producing pictures,
crunching numbers and providing inspection and minor supervision of the real
builders: the value of engineers diminishes. Basically incapable of
supplying the whole job. Such division of labour taken to the extremes means
that the drafters and techncians can just call in the engineers, for that
last minute review, assessment and final approval.
It is also important to recognise the difference between a CAD Techncian and
a Structural Technician. The CAD technician needs supervision and guidance
by someone familiar with the technology being designed, such as structures,
the structural technician understands the technology being designed and
calls upon higher qualified persons for assistance.
It is therefore a matter of perspective as to whether have structural
technicians seeking the asssistance of engineers as their projects becoming
increasingly challenging. Or whether have engineers who subdivide complex
projects into simpler units completed by engineering technicians. Either way
can work, and for the most part all persons tend to work on projects which
become increasingly challenging and seek the assistance of more able persons
to assist with completing the project.
As I understand the review of Queensland's engineers registration, there are
a large number of design businesses owned and operated by engineering
associates, but all their work has to be reviewed and approved by registered
engineers. This situation was one of the main reasons for retaining the
registration system. As I see it, not because of protecting the community,
but keeping the local engineers employed, and limiting national
consultancies completing work out off state.
We have a market driven economy, and work will flow to who ever can maximise
the benefit from the available but otherwise limited resources. That is
giving the customer maximum value for money. Market prices are traditionally
set by hours taken, new players start with new technology, and the hours
taken is reduced compared to tradition. Consequently new players can
significantly reduce the price of their services relative to the market
price without any burden: they don't have past commitments to pay off.
If do not keep the rest of the design team happy, so that they percieve they
have an equitable share of the distribution of income, then they have
potential to set up in business on their own and compete against.
Potentially they can grab some 80% of the projects away from you, and
complete 100% off on their own, whilst the remaining 20% only complete 80%
off and require specialist services for the remaining 20%, and the
technician is not likely to look to previous employer for that extra
service. Of course that can grow, just as the contribution of engineers to
architects work has grown.
The community does not care about architects and engineers, nor about the
difference between engineers and technicians (only the wanabee engineers
care). All the community cares about is businesses which provide them with
the goods and services they desire, in the right condition, at the right
price, at the right time, at the right place. If technicians can supply then
the community with buy from. Engineers can then bleet all they like about
the welfare and saftety of the community: but they need to show engineers
get it right 100% of the time all the time, when arguing techncians are
responsible for failures which some engineers wouldn't make. That is not
possible because many design failures can be demonstrated to be caused by
engineers who are less than competent design technicians.
So treat technicians with more respect. Differentiate between CAD,
Computer, and engineering technician. Properly describe the work which has
to be carried out by the business and determine who is able to contribute to
which tasks and how and to what extent. May find out that your specific
business and the services it provides are not quite so dependent on
engineers as thought. If that is the case then with rapid development of
software and other technologies, likely to find an increasing loss of work
to alternative suppliers: and the licensing system will only sustain some
work.
Put simply if do not have ingenuity and cannot assist architects turn crazy
dreams into reality, and not otherwise specialised in advanced analyis and
mathematics: then time is running out for many individuals practising as
engineers. In a more traditional environment I would hit an obstacle and
turn to an engineer for assistance for more complex analysis. But why would
I pay an engineer to push numbers through a computer program, a program I
can equally well operate and understand the limitations of. Put simply with
the engineer it is still my responsibility to decide whether the engineer
knows what they are doing, and to decide whether to scrap their results or
adopt. Still in control of the design, and don't go around adopting results
of mathematical models because suggests original approach too conservative.
May adjust if suggests original approach unconservative. At the end of the
day however only physical testing of prototypes provides a high level of
confidence and certainty: the mathematical models simply provide a guide
focused on critical characteritsics through the maze of infinite
possibilities. And bridges and buildings tend to be untested, unvalidated
real world experiments placing peoples lives at risk. So high level of
competence in the established science and technology is required. Now what
was that trivial 30 hours complaining about earlier.
And what about succession planning. Wouldn't it be better to develop and
promote experienced structural technicians to EIT's and onto engineers, than
to have inexperienced graduates as EIT's, who eventually become engineers?
Where is 80% of the work in the enterprise? Much of the drafting and number
crunching can now be automated? Thus major contribution to projects is
insight and qualitative understanding, inspection and supervision: rather
than ability to work through the mathematics. The number out off the formula
is not so important as the relationship between the characteristics modelled
by the formula: knowing which parameter to change to achieve the design
objective.
Knowing where we are going is the important issue. Engineers are characters
from history. The future requires highly skilled and competent techncians
fully conversant with the established science and technology, they may
require the educational content of a B.Eng, but to call them engineers is
not appropriate. Further more, whilst 4 years may have been required for
past knowledge base of engineers, potential exists to significantly reduce
the time frame required, thus a 4 year B.Eng could contain vastly more
knowledge in the future. Or the future graduate with a 2 year associate
degree may know the same as a past graduate with a 4 year B.Eng: because
technology makes it so. If the books don't exist then cannot read them, and
a technology not written about is less than established.
Society is dynamic and adaptive: it seeks to maximise the benefit obtained
from available and otherwise limited resources. Unfortunately the social
pyschology associated with the formation of professions tends to counter
that which is in the best interests of society if it diminishes the status
of the profession. Consequently health care and education systems are less
than desired. Likewise there are far more failures of engineered systems
than desired. And the total mess in the form of our cities created by
architects, town planners and civil engineers: whilst we criticise the mess
as a community, we seldom point the figure of responsibility at the so
called qualified professionals. After all their learned response would be:
"what would you know?". Well we know those with the qualifications don't
know any better. Politicians don't help either. Building a mega hospital in
the centre of the city gains status and prestige, whilst many smaller local
community hospitals in rural areas where really needed does not gain status.
Issues of status taking precedence over real need. Employing engineers gives
status to company, employing technicians does not. But what does the
business really need to sustain its operations in the long term? Technicians
slowly gaining experience and moving towards status of highly experienced
and competent engineer, or EIT's rapidly progressing to engineer and making
huge mistakes.
The current technicians may be the future of your business, the ones who
have the memory and experience to avoid future mistakes when the senior
engineers retire: important if company funding their retirement. Members of
a team have synergy and work in harmony not conflict. If drafters are
treated as lowly unimportant members of the team, then there is no reason
for them to have respect for engineers. Each member of the team has to
demonstrate the importance of their contribution to the whole. Each member
may be able to go it alone, but the team provides benefits. Synergy: two
people need less resources than two times one person, two people working in
harmony have greater output than two times one person. It is important to
build the team, and this long standing rift between engineers and others who
can carry out similar work to lesser or greater extent is not beneficial to
a productive team effort, nor to the long term success of a business. We
need to employ people who can do the job which needs doing, and compensate
them accordingly, not according to some concept of profession and the reward
perceived as being owed to such profession.
Sorry! From childhood I knew what architects and engineers did, and if they
were trained to do such things, then clearly what they were being taught was
nonsense. My prime interest is the process of design, and from papers I have
read the typical indication is that engineers are poor at design. If a
talented drafter can fill that gap, then they are an important member of the
engineering team: and just as the drafter needs recognise their own
limitations so does the engineer. And the engineer better be certain about
what they themselves contribute to the team. Placing mathematics on a
pedestal is not helpful, and skill with mathematics is really of limited
value. National decline with skills in mathematics is not a major issue, the
nations weren't built on such skills in the first place. As long as have
qualitative understanding of the mathematical models skill crunching the
numbers through the models not all that important: computers can do the
crunching: if really need to keep doing the same structural calculations
over and over again to confirm what we already knew on the previous hundred
or more projects.
Do not have engineers carrying out work that can be competently carried out
by technicians, make sure engineers are doing the work only they are able to
do. Better to have a competent technician who likes their work than an EIT
who would rather be doing something more complex: what 4 years of study to
do this trivia, don't you do any real engineering, where are the real
projects. The EIT likely to move on to find more interesting and challenging
work, but the technician will remain if operating at their potential and
fairly compensated.


Regards
Conrad Harrison
B.Tech (mfg & mech), MIIE, gradTIEAust
mailto:sch.tectonic@bigpond.com
Adelaide
South Australia